Pokitbeasts (open rpg project)


#62

I don’t think it’s worth worrying too much about that.
As long as all the designs look like they belong together by the end of the project then it’ll probably be fine.

It’s nearly impossible to be original these days.
“Everything is derivative”, such is the pigeonhole principle.
(Might be worth having a skim of this.)

In which case the only reason for capturing them must be to use them as weapons and to gain superiority.
So many there’s some mcguffin all the mages are fighting for?

Without a guide I’d just be pulling rabbits out of hats. I do best with references and guidelines.


#63

i personaly cant work under specific guideline to be creative
and i fill like theres a diference between derivative and copy from other material directly

i gave all the direction i can offer realy, im out of my element to give exact things cuz i know nobody will like it
cuz i would like to go all out on that gothic medival fantasy theme with ghouls and skeletons but seriusly no one will want that.

in essence i cant give you a guide cus idk what im doing im busy figiring the rest and im getting anoyed having to talk about these conceptials things wen everyone has a different vision anyway and will hook off if its not what they want, i gave all i can give and this is seriusly already buirning me out allot, i need people to spit out some ideas to me cuz im all out of them now im seriusly getting like depressed about the lack of progress the last few days with this


#64

Chill buddy. If I was stressing out with all the things I get bombarded with, there would be zero progress on any of this.

And yet, we have come really far in one year.

It’ll work out.

@pharap: since we have not yet done the art competition (which I feel bad about), and people love stuff like this (drawing monsters) and I now have plenty of boards and plastic

… could we combine these things and help @adekto out here?

Just an idea

EDIT: I do not mean abandoning the original concept, but making monsters a competition class of its own


#65

a fresh perspective would be nice, im not developing this week (gamescom) anyway so i be happy to see what the comunity can come up with
the project is plyable enugh to do so im not dead set on the themes i have discused apart from mages and beast with the sumoning mechanics


#66

Incoming text wall and probably lots of unsolicited advice.


Before you do anything else, I really recommend reading Satoshi Taijiri’s Wikipedia page.

Particularly this section:

Click to show full quote

When he first pitched the idea of Pokémon to Nintendo, they could not quite grasp the concept, but were impressed enough with Tajiri’s game design reputation that they decided to explore it. Shigeru Miyamoto began to mentor Tajiri, guiding him during the creation process.[2] Pokémon Red and Blue took six years to produce, and nearly bankrupted Game Freak in the process; often, there was barely enough money to pay the employees.[2] Five employees quit, and Tajiri did not take a salary, instead living off of his father’s income.[2] Investment from Creatures Inc. allowed Game Freak to complete the games, and in return, Creatures received one-third of the franchise rights.[15]

Between the approval and completion stages of the project, Tajiri assisted in the design of two Mario spin-off games for Nintendo: Yoshi and the Japanese-only release Mario & Wario.[16] He also worked on 1994’s Pulseman.[17]

Once the games were completed, very few media outlets gave it attention, believing the Game Boy was a dead console; a general lack of interest of merchandising convinced Tajiri that Nintendo would reject the games.[2] The Pokémon games were not expected to do well, but sales steadily increased until the series found itself among Nintendo’s top franchises.[4] Rumors of a hidden Pokémon creature named Mew, which could only be obtained by exploiting programming errors, increased interest in the game.[2] Tajiri had included Mew in the game in order to promote trading and interaction between players, but Nintendo was not aware of the creature upon release.[18] The franchise helped Nintendo’s waning sales.[19] Tajiri deliberately toned down violence in his games. In this vein, he designed Pokémon creatures to faint rather than die upon their defeat, as he believed it was unhealthy for children to equate the concept of death with losing a game.[3] After the completion and release of Red and Blue in Japan, Tajiri later worked on 1997’s Bushi Seiryūden: Futari no Yūsha.[20] Tajiri continues to be involved in the more modern Pokémon titles as well. In the most recent incarnations, he supervised the process from start to finish and approved all the text.[21] While developing games, Tajiri works irregular hours, often laboring 24 hours at a time and resting 12 hours.[3]

Chaos is the natural state for a game of this scale.
It won’t be over and done in a few weeks, it’s going to be a slow burner.


I bring it up quite a lot, but I worked on Dark & Under (partly as a consultant, partly as the one responsible for reducing the code size).

Before that first bit of Arduboy code was written there was a nearly fully functional prototype written in processing as well as proper game design documentation created by an arts professor.
The first bit of code was committed on the 27th of September and the last bit of code before we declared ‘done’ was committed on the 19th of December. In the next few days we still ended up committing more stuff due to bugs cropping up and other things that needed doing.
It was a long slog and in the last few weeks some of us were getting a bit twitchy because working on the same project day-in and day-out was getting to be a bit much.

The moral of this story is that big games take time, there’s no sense rushing it or feeling under pressure to finish it.
Just chip away a bit at a time and take a break every now and again.


There is.

But the point of a reference is not to ‘copy directly’ it’s to study and emulate the style of the reference.
Many artists study the work of existing artists in order to be able to develop techniques and to provide a baseline for their own work.

By reverse engineering different art styles or ideas, you learn about the fundamental concepts underpinning them and see patterns emerging.
Once you’ve discovered those patterns, you can manipulate them and mix styles in the same way as mixing paints in a paint palette.

Hence I’ve previously studied the work of Eiichiro Oda.

You never know until you ask or try.
You can always make a poll if in doubt.

We have a different vision because we’re not sure what ‘the original vision’ is.

That’s why we need examples and direction.
You say ‘monsters’ to me any I’m thinking cartoony stuff like Pokemon, Dragon Quest, Yokai Watch.
You say ‘monsters’ to @drummyfish and I have no idea what he thinks of, but I suspect it’s something different to what I’m thinking of.
And now you’re saying that you’re actually thinking of gothic Castlevania-esque monsters.

This is why we need a guideline.
I’m not being critical here, I’m being open and honest.

So far the only thing anyone’s threatened to leave over is the licencing, and that’s because we’re in an awkward situation where two of the established contributors have slightly opposing viewpoints.
(Even if I wasn’t submitting art I’d still be around to offer programming advice if asked.)

You can’t please everybody, you just have to pick what you want to do and roll with it.

If it’s burning you out, you’re trying too hard.
I adhere to the ‘Larry Wall’ school of programming - if you can’t solve it now, let it stew for a little bit and come back to it.

This is why I think you should start looking to existing games for inspiration and creating a sort of ‘mood board’ (it’s a stupid name but they’re very useful).
Don’t worry about ‘copying’, in most cases you’d have to be trying hard to copy something to the point it’s recognisable as the thing you’re trying to copy.

Also, you can’t necessarily rely on the ideas coming from other people.
At the moment there’s only 3-4 of us (including you) and half of us aren’t really sure what the game is supposed to look like beyond ‘medieval fantasy’ (which is a vague category - it covers TES IV Obvlivion, D&D, Dragon Quest, etc).

I think you’re expecting too much too soon.
RPGs are hard to make. They take a lot of development.
And currently there’s only 3-4 of us with no fixed roles.

I get the feeling you’re trying to do too much at once as well.
Take the whole game, break it up into smaller chunks, pick one of those chunks, break that up into even smaller chunks, repeat as necessary until you have something small and achievable.

Also I think you should try to pin down the aesthetic before worrying about code.
I very much believe in designing first and programming later.


#67

Is the basics of the game already established and working? I mean you can always use placeholder images with different stats and still go forward with the game engine don’t you think?

Monsters sprites will only be a graphical display of a group of stats pretty much.

Just establish something like the pixel size needed and people in a contest or just for fun could contribute and you choose what you like afterward if you like something there. After a couple are chosen you will see the style you want a little bit clearer.

I mean if the only concern remaining at the end is the graphics, I am pretty sure it won’t remain a concern for long. I saw too many great looking prototype games being abandonned because the game basic engine never was complete d


#68

I concur. Shikata ga nai.

Perhaps at some point, but honestly I don’t really think it would be right to give this precedence over Pok15.

We got everyone’s hopes up, got them to vote on a theme, and effectively promised @HomineLudens that Pok15 would be the recipient of the art from the Pokitto’s first ever art contests.
Giving Pokitbeasts precedence over that would feel a bit disingenuous to me.
(I even designed a poster.)

Plus we’d have to rewrite some of the constraints and a fair chunk of the draft thread’s wording, and I think we’ve missed the optimum point for an art contest anyway because we’re approaching the time when students are going back to school.

If you mean scheduling ‘Pokitbeasts’ as the second art contest after ‘Pok15’, then sure, it would be a suitable candidate.


Without meaning to single anyone out, I remember a certain Pokitto card game that never materialised.

The thing is though, if the code is available then someone will probably pick it up again if it’s a good idea.
(Sadly the code for said card game is not ‘available’.)


#69

i dont want to take over the pok15 contest but if its sucesfull to redo im happy if there is one for poketbeast in october or somthing hitting on heloween might fit my thematic a little

im doing it in a wierd way but i need to know if my modes will work in combination, thats why i want to fiddle with sound sooner then later, also since im dealing with a split system having bits on sd card and bits on flash is all a bit complicated and keeping track what chunk of the file is set for map, beastsprites, dialog, items, saving
is not easy if i did that in the wrong order, the map streaming would not work if i did it last for example, i have no implented any rpg systems yet just the scenes structure.
but hey its open and out there if anyone wants to take it some other way, or just needs to stream a map of an sd card there you go prety much right now

sorry for these last few mesages there a bit disjointed. develoment will return after gamescom


#70

If it wasn’t the first ever contests I’d say “let’s run both at the same time”, but we’ve never actually done anything like this before, so I’m a bit wary.
(And it would mean double the prizes.)

My other apprehension is that we’ve only got some of the code for this, whereas @HomineLudens finished Pok15’s code and was looking for art, so I think it makes more sense to run with Pok15.

I’m not entirely sure I know what you’re talking about, but if you mean what I think then something like this would work fine:

Index Count - uint16_t
{
  Section Id - char[4]
  Section Offset - uint32_t (unsigned, absolute offset)
  Section Length - uint32_t (unsigned)
}
{
  Data Start Mark - uint16_t
  Data - *
  Data End Mark - uint16_t
}

Then you have sections like “MAPS”, “TEXT”, “ITEM”, “DATA”.
You can fit the whole index in RAM.

Of course, this is read-only from the Pokitto’s viewpoint.
Juggling the sections around would probably be too much work for the Pokitto, which is why it’s important to preprocess.

Sorry if that’s confusing, I’ll elabourate tomorrow.