Fantasy Consoles


Are you talking about the weirdness with generics?


This we have in common :slight_smile: (I’ve already freed most of my software, but I have the advantage of not having to work with computers.)


Yeah, I went through this whole thing with my manager. He promised me 3 times I could get fedora to replace windows. Then he talked to IT and they said no because it isn’t as secure as windows and I’d get hacked and stuff :man_facepalming: but my next job I’ll make sure it a requirement.

[Edit] I also won’t be doing c# at my next job.


Haven’t seen Puzzle Script, looks nice. Scratch and Snap are maybe worth a mention too, even if not a fantasy computer by strict definition. (I’ll start teaching kids programming with Snap sometime next month and I’ve made a few games with it, it’s very nice for education.)


I genuinely never thought I’d hear someone say that.
I don’t run into many people who like Java as a language.
Usually people say it’s too verbose.

Fair enough I guess.
I wouldn’t have any use for much of these, I have no interest in developing for phones or web browsers.

In most cases I’d be happy with a one-click compiler and a text editor with syntax highlighting, as long as the editor isn’t too ugly.

There’s also ClojureCLR, IronPython, Eiffel, JScript .Net, SmallBasic and several Lisp variants.

I’ve not attempted to use F# much before. I had a quick look once, but other than having access to the .Net Framework it didn’t seem to provide much benefit over Haskell.
It’s best to pretend VB doesn’t even exist. There are few languages worse than VB.

But C# is a great language. It’s expressive, powerful and good for getting small-scale programs up and running really quickly.
If I need a throwaway program, it’s my go to language.

Yes, it’s called type erasure (as opposed to reified generics, which is what C# and various other languages use).

That’s one of the biggest reasons I stopped using Java, because I write and use a lot of generic code and type-erasure negates a lot of the benefits of having generics.

My other dislikes are the lack of unsigned integer types and requiring all user-created types to be reference types (i.e. having no concept of a value type), which leads to a lot of inefficient indirection and cache thrashing.

C is overrated, use C++. :P


I meant C level as in C, C++ both. I’m actually learning vala as a way to get closer.

Your C# is so far my C++/vala. Though since i discovered groovy that might quickly change.

I do a lot with mobile. I am on the go a lot wo it’s nice to be writing something on my phone for my phone and continue it at home (aide from android and then git into android studio) but it is also nice just to have a jar I can pass around to my family and non technical friends on any desktop os to try my stuff when I want to share.

Yeah I don’t know anybody on real life that likes java or anything jvm. I’m quite the clown to most people for picking jvm and java as my favorites. The verbosity is actually one of the major reasons I really like Java. In my mind it helps me understand really what’s going on. Though especially with java 9 and onwards things are changing very quickly.

I started out programming in C#. And almost all the things I loved most about it java did better. It was in my mind cleaner to understand and easier to learn. It worked without any fuss on anything I put it on and the developing experience was just so much nicer right out of the gate. (Visual studio hates me). I know java and jvm isn’t perfect. It isn’t a silver bullet. If I ever made it seem like I believe it the holy grail of programming please correct me. But I thoroughly enjoy it, and like I said the ecosystem is just a joy to me. It’s my favorite flaws and all. And watching it progress (from 6 to 11) has been so much fun. Like Christmas every upgrade.

I love talking about programming languages though of any platform. Even if I dislike them, it is great to learn! Though I must admit I don’t think i could ever bring myself to do obj-c or swift ever again after college lol…


That’s what I got geany for :smiley:


Just to be clear also. I know my opinions aren’t popular and some of them don’t make sense to many. But they are just opinions :slight_smile:


If you already know one or two languages then you may as well jump straight into C++.
If you’re already an experienced programmer it’s not that hard to get to grips with.

Vala looks a lot like C#.

C++ is more powerful than C#, but it often takes longer to write C++ code because with that power comes responsibility and you have to understand what you’re doing to be able to do something large-scale.

I like both, but I use them for different jobs, and C# is definitely quicker and easier for solving computer-scale problems (i.e. where you can munch through RAM and CPU without worrying).

I almost never leave the house unless I have to.

It didn’t always for me because one of the database systems I was using was dependent on where the database was located.

Which version? 2010 was my favourite, then they ruined the UI.
Visual Studio is still one of my favourite IDEs though. (Moreso than Netbeans, Eclipse or Code::Blocks.)

I think it was on about 7 last time I used it.
It was around the time they were finally adding lambda statements (but I’m not sure if they’d actually finalised that version at that point).

I don’t like Christmas.

Yikes, I thought I had it bad when they taught us VB.

I realise we’ve gone really far off-topic, but these sorts of discussions are always interesting.


Version 2013 through 2017 (home and enterprise) always freeze and crash on multiple different computers I’ve used. And the git always craps up…

This is funny too because NetBeans is my favorite IDE haha!

I wish I were so lucky…

I know a bit if C++ but haven’t gone serious on it yet. Mostly it is a time thing keeping me from it too.

Vala really does take a lot of inspiration from C# but also java and other related high level languages. It really just abstracts the heck out of C though xD


I think I’ve had it crash precisely once.

I don’t really use command-line git, I just use GitHub’s UI to manage everything.
(I’ve attempted to use command-line git before, but I always give up.)

That’s a good thing.


+1, I agree with a lot of them, and if I can say, we have more than enough popular opinions around the globe.

That’s okay, it’s currently not in the way of discussing the original topic, so feel free to go on :slight_smile: For me it’s nice to be an outside observer of this for once.

It took me about two/three giveups before I actually learned it, but it’s worth it:

  • Committing becomes as easy as breathing and you start to use commits more as they’re supposed to – commit every small change etc. You also learn to jump between commits and branches like a monkey in the forest, which really unleashes the power of git.
  • Some things you can’t do with the GUI (I think e.g. commit squashing), so you become more powerful and again start using the git more effectively and in the way it’s supposed to be used.
  • You become independent of GitHub, Internet connection and so on.
  • It’s more comfortable, the more so the more you use command line like me.
  • It’s also less distracting from programming, you do the usual actions by muscle memory withing a span of a few seconds.


I am using TortoiseGit UI for everything. It is very versatile. It does not “support” staging but I do not find any use of that anyway.


Your explanation of cli git is exactly how my experience is! The cli git definitely wins. And I was a huge fan of using gitkrakken.


I already do that.
See Arduboy2Pokitto’s commits or FixedPointsArduino’s commits.

It’s not supposed to be every tiny change,
it’s supposed to be the smallest amount of changes that form a cohesive unit.
I.e. after each commit, the program should still be able to compile properly, and each commit should represent a significant logical change, so lots of similar changes (e.g. changing " to '’ in languages where those are interchangable) should be batched.

You can indeed squash commits on GitHub.
There are a few things you can’t do, but I’ve only come across one or two things that I can’t do in the UI that I’ve actually wanted to do.

Half true.
I can work without GitHub, I just couldn’t commit without it.

Not everyone likes command line.
Even if I knew the commands, I’d still prefer to use a UI tool.

I don’t think that applies to everyone.
And even if it does, it could apply to a UI as well.

I’ve heard of TortoiseGit.

I agree about staging not being particularly useful.
It’s supposed to stop you making mistakes, but if you commit to a ‘feature’ branch before merging to master then it’s easy enough to undo commits anyway.

I think I’d give it a try if there were a way to do signature verification with it,
so I get the ‘verified’ message next to my commits on GitHub.